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Control Powers
gscraig44
4 Posts
(Offline)
75
November 7, 2019 - 8:45 am

The character I enjoyed using the most was my controller. However, I don't see a primary Electricity/Storm based controller powerset. City of heroes, the hurricane around the waist was cool, although not as effective as it should have been. Lightening Storm as a damage and recovery debuffer.....Very cool powerset. Forming a tornadoo debuffer or scatter villains who would overwhelm heroes. Please bring this to the game. Absolutely creative and fun powerset. Could use even more creativity.

Additionally, as I'm looking at the launch control powers..They are all mostly similar (holds/slow) aside from confuse. Weather/Elements Manipulation is an alternative and it also givea the controller a power set that they use to protect themselves and do damage. Let's go SOH!!

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JestersGhost
969 Posts
(Offline)
74
October 21, 2019 - 10:02 am

darktower post_id=23742 time=1571439695 user_id=6991 said:

Whereas in CoH, you know that Katana is all about reducing defense, and you know exactly what defense is. It creates a kind of "metric vocabulary" that everyone can speak and it makes it easier for people to think about, plan and talk to others about builds and play styles. It's an idea taken from the universe itself, where materials are made of molecules and molecules are made of atoms. It's great design, and it's probably one of the most beloved aspects of the game, second maybe to killer MoCap, stunning frame rate and excellent sprite and billboard usage.

Most modern games have this common "effect vocabulary", since as you said, it makes communication much easier. Two examples from completely different genres:

Magic: the Gathering - Tapped, Removed from Game, Flanked, Blocking, Attacking
Honkai Impact 3rd - Frozen, Paralyzed, Impaired, Weakened, Airborne, Move Slowed

And thus it's easy to talk about them, and say, "This triggers when a card is Removed from Game", or "this ability is available when an enemy is Impaired", etc.

As long as definitions for the terms are readily available and easily referenced then it does help understanding what abilities do.

quantum sufficit

darktower
2 Posts
(Offline)
73
October 18, 2019 - 7:07 pm

Great post, JestersGhost - I am also very interested in classic disadvantages - as in the old Champions and current Hero game systems. Some Hunted's would be really cool, and fairly easy to pull off from a scripting standpoint, since it's basically a ambush.

So many creative people with great thoughts on here! 😀

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indigowulf
Behind you!
458 Posts
(Offline)
72
July 20, 2018 - 4:29 pm

JestersGhost post_id=16328 time=1531838348 user_id=442 said:


Now you have me thinking about Otto's Irresistible Dance from D&D, and I want a controller who can make people just stand there and dance/emote instead of fighting 😛

ObCoT reference: ">[Permission to view this media is denied]

I do think the Titans' team has done an amazing job on the customisation aspect of powers, and I hope we'll get something like this eventually in SoH.

OMG that's awesome and I love it!

~Future founder of Feral Storm, once animal options are available!~

alteredminds1
1 Posts
(Offline)
71
July 18, 2018 - 5:55 am

i sure have missed the word placate 🙂

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Consultant
1852 Posts
(Offline)
70
July 18, 2018 - 4:32 am

That particular power is not too hard to do. You just enable a dance emote instead of, or in addition to, the "normal" FX and damage. In a way, it could be a substitute for a fully developed power system.

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JestersGhost
969 Posts
(Offline)
69
July 17, 2018 - 10:39 am

indigowulf post_id=16318 time=1531784726 user_id=1913 said:

Now you have me thinking about Otto's Irresistible Dance from D&D, and I want a controller who can make people just stand there and dance/emote instead of fighting 😛

ObCoT reference: ">[Permission to view this media is denied]

I do think the Titans' team has done an amazing job on the customisation aspect of powers, and I hope we'll get something like this eventually in SoH.

quantum sufficit

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Golden Ace
2213 Posts
(Offline)
68
July 16, 2018 - 7:50 pm

indigowulf post_id=16318 time=1531784726 user_id=1913 said:

Now you have me thinking about Otto's Irresistible Dance from D&D, and I want a controller who can make people just stand there and dance/emote instead of fighting 😛

I Knew you were awesome!!

Want!

Sometimes You Feel Like a Tank, Sometimes You Don't

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JestersGhost
969 Posts
(Offline)
67
July 16, 2018 - 5:52 am

"Major Victory" post_id=15824 time=1530191234 user_id=658 said:

So every "plus" you take, you must take a "minus".

Now how you would program something like that and keep it working ....

The difficulty with those schemes is simply players are very good at working out what the least disadvantageous disadvantage is 😛

For example, in CoH, if players had had that choice, most people would have taken "weakness to psychic" and "resistant to lethal/smashing", since those were the least and most common damage types respectively.

With the massive range of damage types SoH is likely to have, trying to ensure every single type is used evenly with the same damage output...yeah, I don't envy the designer in charge of that little headache.

You need to keep it simple. Now while I think there's a place for minimal damage types (too many options is just as bad as too few, after all), that isn't the situation we have.

To drag this post back onto the original topic, however, if we were to talk resistance/weakness to control powers, we find initially a similar situation: slow, immobilise, hold, stun, intangible, recharge slow, confuse, knock-up, knock-down, knock-back, etc.

Look at the broad effects, however, and you only have three (everything else is a matter of degree): limiting movement, limiting power activation, limiting target selection.

Immobilise, slow, knock-up, knock-down, knock-back, hold, stun: limiting movement
silence, hold, stun, recharge slow, knock-up, knock-down, knock-back: limiting power activation
intangible, confuse, knock-back, blind: limiting target selection

Now, having variable resistances to a category makes things vary interesting. Resistant to power activation limits, but not movement limits - that hold will transition into an immobilise before it wears off, or you'll be able to fire your powers while in the air if knocked-up.

And trying to pick which category you want to be strong against, and which one weak against? I dunno, that's a pretty tough choice, certainly a lot harder to call than which damage types you'd want to be resistant to.

quantum sufficit

Major Victory
82 Posts
(Offline)
66
June 28, 2018 - 9:07 am

Personally, I'd love to see everything have strengths and weaknesses to different kinds of attacks, like you mentioned mindless robots vr psy type attacks. Fire elementals vr fire attacks, etc. Then again, I'd love to see us players get some resistance to our own power sets- are you a psyonisist, master of the mind? Then it makes sense you'd have some resistance to mental attacks.

you got a point here 🙂
yep it makes definitely sense, that there are immunities for certain powers (which the character has himself for example like you stated 🙂 )
but then it also would be as logic to have weaknesses too - like a fire powered guy has weaknesses against one with ice or vice versa for example

Immunity or resistance to makes sense for many powers. You could also do an immunity to a power you don't have. Like Cyclops' force beams and his brother Havok's [quantum, I forget, did they decide his power was quantum?] energy beams. It has been shown that each is immune to his brother's power but can be affected by their own power if it is reflected back to them.

Now way back in the 60s, Johnny Storm Human Torch fought what he thought was the original Human Torch of the 40s, turned out that it was actually Toro and they both were able to do some damage to each other but their powers were somewhat resisted.

Or Superman, while not especially vulnerable to magic, is as affected by magic as a normal person. So he has absolutely no resistance versus magic attacks.

So every "plus" you take, you must take a "minus".

Now how you would program something like that and keep it working ....

Major Victory
82 Posts
(Offline)
65
June 28, 2018 - 8:58 am

PaperTank post_id=15650 time=1529635614 user_id=3192 said:



If there somehow... happens to get a Rad/Rad type power mix into the control for the buff/debuff and temp holds,slows, and chokes.... I'm going to be as happy as my avatar

[size=200]ALL MIGHT!!! I AM HERE![/size] 😀

WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keeping up with the anime. Shocked to find you are quirkless now. :ugeek:

Vertigo Blue
49 Posts
(Offline)
64
June 24, 2018 - 12:09 pm

Please excuse all the quotes, but I really like these ideas/feedback.

JestersGhost post_id=7339 time=1511350163 user_id=442 said:

If players can make themselves Intangible too, and Intangible players and enemies can fight, then sure.

Yes.

JestersGhost post_id=7339 time=1511350163 user_id=442 said:

Also, the "weakness" of a slow means the debuff can be more liberally used. A power seems a little underpowered or not as useful? Add a small slow component. Again, it's an excellent low-impact balancing lever that can be added where needed.

Agreed.

Seethe post_id=7343 time=1511381106 user_id=1948 said:

Caging was once used pretty widely in pre-I13 PvP. In PvE, it often had limited use outside of soloing because it wasn't effective on AV's due the insanely high status protection.

I'm open to this idea as long as it's actually functional against boss level encounters.

YES.

legacy72 post_id=14906 time=1527954891 user_id=7047 said:

My favorite character on CoH I created was a mystery man type hero illusion controller.

Same, my illusion/kin was one of my fave toons to run missions with.

legacy72 post_id=15336 time=1528851576 user_id=7047 said:

The illusion controller's pets in CoH were not permanent pets, they were just another illusion power, except for maybe the most powerful one (the most powerful did stay up until you banished him). But most would only stay up for anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes and then you'd have to wait another minute or two for each power to cooldown; usually the weaker "power pets" wouldn't even make it through a whole battle. My point, I guess, is except for the most powerful one, they weren't following your toon around, like if you were traveling between zones or something. Just throwing that out there when the devs are considering what to develop for a controller. I could see how programming pets to follow a character in the game could make coding more complex.

Agreed. If anything like a CoH illusion controller will exist in SoH I'd like to see them keep castable temp pets and maybe one companion (permanent) type pet.

darktower post_id=15074 time=1528301737 user_id=6991 said:

Confuse: Confuse is unique to CoH to my knowledge (could be wrong), and is one of the most unique and interesting control effects I've ever seen. I liked the suggestion made by someone else in this thread - the idea of enemies attacking the confused individual after being attacked. I will see and raise that idea with this: It would be fantastic if you had an intelligence probability for enemies with high enough intelligence which determined whether the remaining un-confused group members would aggro and attempt to locate the source of the confusion. This could be thwarted by a caster by having invisibility or stealth. But it would add further depth and realism for being a confusion-bearing hero - i.e. that you'd have to make a conscious decision about having stealth or invis.

Love this. I agree that stealth would be a must in this case.

"Avatar PDM" post_id=15157 time=1528442688 user_id=3563 said:

true - due to the similarity of the power concepts I guess it would basically just be an exchange of the optics. how the powers work on your opponent would be similar between all those powersets (could imagine, that he meant that) and therefore only what we see would differ and not all the work behind it (I assume)

YES...life made easy.

indigowulf post_id=15641 time=1529597678 user_id=1913 said:

Personally, I'd love to see everything have strengths and weaknesses to different kinds of attacks, like you mentioned mindless robots vr psy type attacks. Fire elementals vr fire attacks, etc. Then again, I'd love to see us players get some resistance to our own power sets- are you a psyonisist, master of the mind? Then it makes sense you'd have some resistance to mental attacks.

Thats the most logical approach. Would enrich gameplay/content and be more realistic.

Landrymat
9 Posts
(Offline)
63
June 23, 2018 - 3:06 pm

I for one love the intangibility idea. I was always fan on controllers being able to pull off that one crucial hold. And I must say in the right hands an intangibility affect is way helpful. I know in CoH there were many times when our time is knee deep in a mission and we had a couple dc's and we gt overwhelmed my too much aggro. We have one lieutenant or maybe a boss whos left and hes taking us out and our Our team is dropping like flies. And BOOM troller or defender used one of those powers. I forget what it was called in force field. Maybe force bubble? By it gave u time to rez or trade good respites while enemy just sits there unable to move.

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Avatar PDM
602 Posts
(Offline)
62
June 22, 2018 - 3:51 am

indigowulf post_id=15641 time=1529597678 user_id=1913 said:


Perhaps this has been discussed before, but are there going to be augmentations, or enhancement slots for these powers? If so, you could customize these; for example: a slow power with Casting Speed slots would slow movement and attack speed.

Another example would be a drain slot, where you could drain energy or health and return it to the caster when using a control power.

And is there going to be types of control? Like a mind controller is less effective on a robot enemy.

Personally, I'd love to see everything have strengths and weaknesses to different kinds of attacks, like you mentioned mindless robots vr psy type attacks. Fire elementals vr fire attacks, etc. Then again, I'd love to see us players get some resistance to our own power sets- are you a psyonisist, master of the mind? Then it makes sense you'd have some resistance to mental attacks.

you got a point here 🙂
yep it makes definitely sense, that there are immunities for certain powers (which the character has himself for example like you stated 🙂 )
but then it also would be as logic to have weaknesses too - like a fire powered guy has weaknesses against one with ice or vice versa for example

PaperTank
11 Posts
(Offline)
61
June 21, 2018 - 10:46 pm

"Golden Ace" post_id=15609 time=1529545730 user_id=4430 said:


If there somehow... happens to get a Rad/Rad type power mix into the control for the buff/debuff and temp holds,slows, and chokes.... I'm going to be as happy as my avatar

[size=200]ALL MIGHT!!! I AM HERE![/size] 😀

WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Avatar
indigowulf
Behind you!
458 Posts
(Offline)
60
June 21, 2018 - 12:14 pm

olepi post_id=15632 time=1529590207 user_id=6950 said:

Perhaps this has been discussed before, but are there going to be augmentations, or enhancement slots for these powers? If so, you could customize these; for example: a slow power with Casting Speed slots would slow movement and attack speed.

Another example would be a drain slot, where you could drain energy or health and return it to the caster when using a control power.

And is there going to be types of control? Like a mind controller is less effective on a robot enemy.

Personally, I'd love to see everything have strengths and weaknesses to different kinds of attacks, like you mentioned mindless robots vr psy type attacks. Fire elementals vr fire attacks, etc. Then again, I'd love to see us players get some resistance to our own power sets- are you a psyonisist, master of the mind? Then it makes sense you'd have some resistance to mental attacks.

~Future founder of Feral Storm, once animal options are available!~

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olepi
197 Posts
(Offline)
59
June 21, 2018 - 10:10 am

Perhaps this has been discussed before, but are there going to be augmentations, or enhancement slots for these powers? If so, you could customize these; for example: a slow power with Casting Speed slots would slow movement and attack speed.

Another example would be a drain slot, where you could drain energy or health and return it to the caster when using a control power.

And is there going to be types of control? Like a mind controller is less effective on a robot enemy.

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Avatar PDM
602 Posts
(Offline)
58
June 21, 2018 - 3:13 am

Gisrie post_id=15604 time=1529529846 user_id=1499 said:

Instead of Blind being an alternate name for Sleep, wouldn't it be cool if Blind caused the enemies to randomly fire out abilities in different directions? Something like, they can't see you, but they know that you are there somewhere so they just take their gun and shoot in random directions. Just a thought.

would make it to a kind of chaotic power - since we would have to jump in between to safe civilians from being hit by those stray fires 😉

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Golden Ace
2213 Posts
(Offline)
57
June 20, 2018 - 9:48 pm

PaperTank post_id=15608 time=1529545474 user_id=3192 said:

If there somehow... happens to get a Rad/Rad type power mix into the control for the buff/debuff and temp holds,slows, and chokes.... I'm going to be as happy as my avatar

[size=200]ALL MIGHT!!! I AM HERE![/size] 😀

Sometimes You Feel Like a Tank, Sometimes You Don't

PaperTank
11 Posts
(Offline)
56
June 20, 2018 - 9:44 pm

If there somehow... happens to get a Rad/Rad type power mix into the control for the buff/debuff and temp holds,slows, and chokes.... I'm going to be as happy as my avatar

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